Another Look At the Zechariah 13: 8-9 and Deuteronomy 32: 35-36 Scenario - 2:29 PM, 5/15/2008 |
Another Look At the Zechariah 13: 8-9 and Deuteronomy 32: 35-36 Scenario
Bernard Pyron Zechariah 13: 8-9 or Deuteronomy 32: 35-36 do not say that Christians will be leaving the Church in large numbers in the end times, during the Tribulation. In Zechariah 13: 8-9 the Lord says of his people, which he there refers to as "in all the earth" that "And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein. And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God." The information in this text can be summarized as (l) two thirds of God's people, the Church in the Tribulation period, are to be cut off and die, (2) one third will go through a fire where they will be refined, and (3) after going through the fire and being refined these Christians call on the Lord and he accepts them as his people, implying that he does not accept the two thirds who are cut off and die. To "cut off" is from Strong's number 3772, "cut (off, down, asunder) by implication destroy or consume." Then 'die" is number 1478, "to breathe out,(i.e) By implication. Expire: die, to be dead, give up the ghost perish. To "refine" is Strong's number 6884, "to fuse (metal) i.e. refine, (literally or figuratively), Cast, refine (er), founder, goldsmith, melt, purge, purge away." "Try" is Strong's 974, "to test, (especially metals), to investigate, examine, tempt, try (tried)." The one third who come through a fire and call on the Lord who accepts them are purged of something found undesirable by the Lord. He tests and tries them in the fire to take out whatever it is he finds undesirable. This text does not say why God is to judge two thirds of the Church to cut them and and they will die, or why he puts the remaining one third through a fire test which also purges them of their dross, whatever it is. But the text does say clearly that this one third are accepted by the Lord, whereas the two thirds is not. II Thessalonians 2: 10-12 is one text which might suggest a reason why the two thirds are cut off and die and why the one third is put through a fire to be purged of something and then accepted by God. Maybe its because to come extent all the Church lacks the love of the truth than the Lord wants, and many are operating in false doctrines or lies. Perhaps the two thirds who are cut off an die are more set in their lack of love for the truth and their holding to false doctrines. Then Deuteronomy 32: 36 says "For the LORD shall judge his people, and repent himself for his servants, when he seeth that their power is gone, and there is none shut up, or left." Verses 37 and 38 go on to say "And he shall say, Where are their gods, their rock in whom they trusted, Which did eat the fat of their sacrifices, and drank the wine of their drink offerings? let them rise up and help you, and be your protection." The dispensationalists will say these two verses prove that Deuteronomy 32: 35-36 does not apply to the Church but applies to and is exhausted as a prophecy of Old Testament Israel who went after pagan gods. But just as ancient Israel went after pagan gods to worship them, so the Church under dispensationalism honors and comes close to the worship of ancient or modern unsaved Israel, and denies its identify in Christ as Israel. The text doesn't say this and we have to accept that it is only focused on God's judgment on his people and not the explicit reasons for his judgment. But look at what Matthew 24: 9-11, Luke 21: 16, Luke 12: 11, and John 16: 2 say: Matthew 24: 9-11: "Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many." Luke 21: 16 says: "And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death." "Some" has been added to the King James English because its not in the Greek Textus Receptus." Luke 12: 11: "And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say:" Synagogues is Strong's number 4864, meaning "an assemblage of persons, a Jewish synagogue, by analogy, a Christian church, assembly, congregation, synagogue." Sunagoge in the Greek, or synagogue, can mean a Christian church. Magistrates probably refers to judges, to whom Christians are brought on some kind of charge, such as blasphemy under the Noahide laws or hate speech laws. John 16: 2 says "They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service." Then, in Luke 17: 34-37 and Matthew 24: 28 where there are two people one shall be taken and the other left? The apostles asked Christ where they were to be taken to and he answered, more clearly in Matthew 24: 28, "For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together." Are the "eagles" really vultures? The people taken are not taken in the dispensationalist rapture before the Tribulation, but they are taken as part of the persecution of Christians in the Tribulation. In Luke 12: 11 and John 16: 2, at least, the churches are said to be involved in the persecution of Christians, and in Luke 21: 16 Christians are betrayed by brethren, friends and kinfolks, and are killed. There must be a reason why the Church would severely persecute Christians in the Tribulation. Are the Christians who have come through a fire, are purged, call on God and he accepts them those who are persecuted? If they have come out of the Church's theology or out of one of its main theologies and are public in proclaiming that the Church is following lies or false theology, then this could be the reason they are being persecuted. In addition, if this huge number of Christians - one third of all the Christians in the world - have also left the Church and are also public in saying the Church is in false doctrines, then this might be an even bigger reason why the Church would persecute them. It may work out that the one third come out of false theology and the Church over a period of time, one at a time mostly, so that some may have already been jailed or even killed by the time others come out. While there are texts telling Christians to come out of what can be interpreted to be the Church, I know of no Scriptures saying Christians will do so. Matthew 24: 15-21 and Luke 21: 20-21, the warning that when the abomination of desolation is seen, to flee out of Judea into the mountains, can be interpreted to say that spiritual Judea, the Christians, are to flee out of Judea as the Church. The mountains represent spiritual Zion. Jeremiah 51: 45 says "My people, go ye out of the midst of her, and deliver ye every man his soul from the fierce anger of the Lord." "Her" is Babylon in Jeremiah 51. In Revelation 16: 19 the great city which is Babylon, who is described in Revelation 17: 1-5 as the whore that sits on many waters and as Mystery Babylon the Great, is divided into three parts. Revelation 18: 4 calls Christians, saying "Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues." "Again, "her" is Babylon, representing the Church. Revelation 18: 23-24 says "And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived. And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth." This is describing the Church after all the one third who go through the fire to the Lord have left and/or have all been killed. With that one third gone, there is now no spiritual life left within the Church; it is dead. The voice of the bridegroom, who is Christ, and the voice of his bride, who are not those apostates remaining in the Church, are heard no more. And in the Church is found the blood of the martyred Multitude, called here the prophets and the saints. The Church assumes authority over Christians. Then the Church gives some of its authority to accepted theologies, primarily dispensationalism and various forms of Calvinism. The theologies then assume authority over Christians. This is why, for example, it is now so difficult to get many church members of dispensationalist denominations to fully come out of dispensationalism. The Zechariah 13: 8-9 scenario worked out by two leaders and my group on the Internet has focused only on dispensationalism. This scenario emphasizes John Hagee or a future John Hagee type and millions of Christian followers who begin to persecute that one third who apparently come out of dispensationalism as well as out of the Church. Since many Calvinists - but not all - accept the doctrine that Christians are Israel, then for many Calvinists coming to believe Christians are Israel is not an indicator that they are coming out of apostasy as it is for dispensationalists who previously had believed that unsaved Jews only are Israel. Calvinists would go into apostasy the same general way the dispensationalists do, by rejecting truth as taught in Scripture and by substituting theology in place of that truth. Its just that proclaiming that Christians are Israel does not necessarily have the same significance for some Calvinists who already belive this as it does for dispenationalists. Are most Calvinists going to be free of the John Hagee or future John Hagee-Christians United For Israel (CUFI) type in an end time scenario? This is a good question. But since that one third who comes through the fire of purging and testing to the truth and is accepted by the Lord may also leave the Church in masses of people as an ongoing public event, then we might wonder if the Calvinist side of the Church or some Calvinist churches might join with the dispensationalist side of the Church in a show of some unity against the Christians coming out of one of the church's main theologies and out of the church itself to protect the Church? If this is to play out, then we would see Calvinist as well as dispensationalist "Pharisee" types persecuting the Christians who come out of false theology and out of the church. Bernard
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