| ||
| Discussion of Online Training |
| ||
| This Blog is set up to solicit responses from the environmental industry regarding internet AHERA training.
| ||
| Post Comment |
| |||
| How can you possibly handle the advance notice requirement? | |||
| Posted by Anonymous | |||
| |||
| The ten day notices and the 24 hour notices are regulated in order that the Fed or states can organize and insure an audit. The software we are currently using automatically e-mails state authorities when an individual within their state registers for an online course. Since the only preparation the auditor needs is to find an internet capable computer, the intent of the rule is met. As for the letter of the rule, states need only accept a blanket notification once a year for online training. This system will be demonstrated to the public from June 1, 2007 thru August 31, 2007 at this site. | |||
| Posted by James F. Stump | |||
| |||
| How do you know it is really me at the computer and not my 14 year old kid taking my refresher for me? Hey!! By the way, when is my building inspector refresher up anyway? | |||
| Posted by Alex Front | |||
| |||
| We have addressed the issue of fraud in the following manner: 1. In a well planned and executed "refresher course", a very smart novice will not have the experience to answer questions necessary to pass our course. 2. By offering only the higher level courses (supervisor, inspector, management planner, etc.) finding someone to take the course for you would be very expensive. 3. By offering online classes only to those that have trained with us before allows us access to information a fraudulent student would not know. Asking questions throughout the course based on this information has proved to be effective. We ask questions like, "What are the 4th and 5th numbers of your Social Security Number?", or, "Where were you employed in 2002?, or, "What is the first number of your home address given to Seagull in 2005?". | |||
| Posted by James F. Stump | |||
| |||
| Who requested the USEPA to address this issue? If you guys did, congratulations. I'm in central Florida. It's a real problem to get my refreshers. I gave up trying years ago and gave up a good trade at the same time. | |||
| Posted by Bob Lane | |||
| |||
| Sorry, Bob, it wasn't us. I believe it was a company called Occu-tec from Kansas City. | |||
| Posted by James F. Stump | |||
| |||
| Jim, I video confrence with my friends all the time. Why not teach your couses that way? You may remember me. I trained for you years ago. | |||
| Posted by Roy Wiljanen | |||
| |||
| There are two reasons we don't use video conferencing: 1. It is unlikely that many students will have access to the super high speed internet bandwidth necessary to allow video conferencing and the presentation of course material at the same time. In addition, bandwidth tends to go down the further one is from a metropolitan area. Those that need online training the most are those in remote areas with the lowest bandwidth. Video Conferencing sounds good, but isn't there yet in a practical sense. 2. Computers that are equipped for iChat or AIM Video will also record and loop playback anything you want. One can sit at one of these computers for a few minutes recording themselves and then play it back over and over in a loop. To the viewer on the other end it appears that the individual is present. Video IM seems to be an invitation to fraud, not an answer to it, in our opinion. | |||
| Posted by James F. Stump | |||
| |||
| I'm in New Jersey. Will they accept this type of training? | |||
| Posted by Bruce Ziegler | |||
| |||
| Bruce, I can't talk for New Jersey, but since they have their own authorized program, I would guess that they will not. To understand whether a state will or will not accept online training, you should check with every state where you may work before taking the training. Acceptance is based on the course, as an Internet course, being approved. To understand approvals, I find it best to divide states into three categories: 1. States with no authorized program. These states honor USEPA approved courses. To be USEPA approved, a course needs to be approved by at least one authorized state program. If an online course is approved by any authorized state, it is USEPA approved. 2. States with an authorized program, but accept USEPA training. These states will accept training approved by any authorized state as long as it is not conducted within their state. Generally, to accept training within their borders the training would have to be directly approved by them. 3. States with an authorized program that do not accept USEPA training. Usually, regardless of where the training occurs, it has to be approved by that state for you to work in that state, like New Jersey. There are states that do not fall in any of these categories. There are authorized states that have limited reciprocity with ajoining states. This gets really sticky. Bottom line...check with each state where you intend to work prior to taking any online training. | |||
| Posted by James F. Stump | |||
| |||
| What's going to happen when a course is given in one state, but it has students in ten states and three regions of USEPA? Who regulates? | |||
| Posted by Gordon Yetter | |||
| |||
| In my mind, this is the toughest of all problems facing our government and private industry related to online training. You get into state rights, the Constitution, precedent, and existing rules. It is a very complex and confusing area. There doesn't seem to be a short answer. It seems obvious that states with their own authorized programs that do not accept USEPA approved courses will expect to continue having total dominion over any training that occurs in their state. The real problem, I see here, is a student who is traveling while taking an online refresher. Suppose this student takes part of their refresher in a hotel room in Indiana who has their own authorized program. Even though the student has no interest in licensure in Indiana, Indiana regulations take dominion over all asbestos training conducted in Indiana. This brings the question, "Where did the training actually occur?" Common sense tell us that "learning" may have occured in the ten states of our example, but the "training" occurred in the state that hosts the online course. This position is supported by precedent. If I got a masters degree online from Georgia Tech, no one would question in which states the teaching occurred. My degree is from Georgia Tech in Georgia. It is well agreed amoung the associations related to online training, that the training occurs at the server and the learning occurs at the location of the student. States and the Fed regulate "training", not "learning". Article I, Section 8, Clause 3 of the United States Constitution, known as the Commerce Clause empowers the Federal government and limits states regulatory power when an act of commerce occurs in more than one state. The dominion of the channels of commerce, the instrumentalities of commerce, and actions that substantially affects interstate commerce are specifically given to the Federal government, not states. This was upheld as late as 1995. I'm not an attorney, but I think it is a safe bet that some of our nation's largest corporations who spend millions on travel and lodging expenses for their employees to be trained will challenge obstructions to online training. The Fed, I believe, intends to stay our of this arguement, leaving it to the authorized states. I have not yet seen a clause in any state's asbestos regulations specifically dealing with online courses. Therefore, I predict that states will attempt to reinterpret existing rules to regulate online training. How far will they stretch and how legal will it be are questions for the future and likely our courts. In the mean time, check with every state where you may work to see if they accept the particular course from the particular provider before you take any online refresher course. | |||
| Posted by James F. Stump | |||
| |||
| In my state heart surgeons, brain surgeons, nuclear engineers, attorneys, and industrial hygenists all have to take continuing education. All can get their CEU training online without all this verification. What about an asbestos worker is so much more important that these extavagant measures are needed? And, where are the laws, rules, and regulations requiring them? | |||
| Posted by Roy Wiljanen | |||
